Day Eight: Blacks Hate Gays?
Because, apparently, this shit is all our faultToday I was planning on tackling Prop 8, and all the discussion surrounding the news that 75% of African-American voters supported it. I decided against it. After reading Dan Savage's opinion on "Black Homophobia" and some of the unapologetically racist comments of his supporters, my draft took on a tone that was far too vitriolic. Frankly, I have to admit that my thoughts about this topic aren't organized enough. So I refer you to L-Boogie, who writes Blackrageous, for her take on things. Maybe I'll have something tomorrow. Maybe.
But, just so you get an sense of what I've been thinking, I'll leave you with a message that I left on Dan Savage's Slog:
"Frankly, I'm not terribly surprised by the vitriol being spewed in this thread by (understandably) frustrated gay whites and supporters of gay rights. I've noticed that race is what things generally end up boiling down to. It's been said repeatedly throughout this thread but it bears repeating: Black folks are generally a great deal more religious (and religiously conservative) than other groups. If you compare the "70%!" stat about which so many of you are screaming with the voting patterns of religious conservatives, I'm certain you would find a similar percentage. But you all just can't avoid envisioning Negroes keeping you oppressed, can you?
And Mr. Savage: I find it interesting that you are suddenly concerned about how "Black Homophobia" affects GLBT African-Americans, when you've shown zero interest in the subject up until now. Your completely pathetic attempt to cocoon yourself from criticism by claiming that you're starting dialogue notwithstanding, I'm not buying it. Frankly, believe it or not, this discussion has been taking place among African-Americans for decades. We certainly don't need the likes of you to get shit going."
But, just so you get an sense of what I've been thinking, I'll leave you with a message that I left on Dan Savage's Slog:
"Frankly, I'm not terribly surprised by the vitriol being spewed in this thread by (understandably) frustrated gay whites and supporters of gay rights. I've noticed that race is what things generally end up boiling down to. It's been said repeatedly throughout this thread but it bears repeating: Black folks are generally a great deal more religious (and religiously conservative) than other groups. If you compare the "70%!" stat about which so many of you are screaming with the voting patterns of religious conservatives, I'm certain you would find a similar percentage. But you all just can't avoid envisioning Negroes keeping you oppressed, can you?
And Mr. Savage: I find it interesting that you are suddenly concerned about how "Black Homophobia" affects GLBT African-Americans, when you've shown zero interest in the subject up until now. Your completely pathetic attempt to cocoon yourself from criticism by claiming that you're starting dialogue notwithstanding, I'm not buying it. Frankly, believe it or not, this discussion has been taking place among African-Americans for decades. We certainly don't need the likes of you to get shit going."
Labels: Bigotry, Proposition 8
posted by Another Conflict Theorist @ 7:29 PM
11 Comments
11 Comments:
Hi Blaxplanation,
I just ran across your blog when I did a Google blog search on "Prop 8." Thanks for talking about these issues! I think you are misinterpreting Dan Savage's comments in "Black Homophobia." In his article, he specifically states that he opposes racism. In fact, he has updated his article:
"I don’t endorse any of the hostile, racist comments posted here. I stopped reading this thread, though, early yesterday afternoon; I couldn’t keep up."
Simply because people leave racist statements on his comments section doesn't mean that he agrees with them...nor can they all be considered "his supporters" as you state. I am leaving a comment on your blog but that doesn't mean I am your "supporter." You sound like a nice person, but I haven't read enough of your blog to know whether I am a supporter...but with the "Yes on Proposition 8" logo on your page, I probably wouldn't be.
In your comments, you said that "this discussion has been taking place among African-Americans for decades." If that is the case, why is it taking so long to show progress in addressing anti-gay views in the black community? I would be curious to know your thoughts. Thanks...
A Reader in Northern Virginia
Thanks for the shout Conflict! Smooches to u.
Dayum, you can attack this shit from so many different angles: race, religion, bigotry in the glbt and black communities, the role of the media, the role of rich & powerful interest groups, and so on. It's sad tho, that folks are so intent on placing blame on a single group of people while ignoring all other aspects. i found this all very interesting from the religious perspective, but don't even get me started with the role our media plays in dividing the people...
First off I want to say that this vote in California settled a running debate I had with a friend. It proved my notion that black people are far more socially conservative then they would admit publicly because of the Democratic party's brainwashing.
Secondly, homosexuality is never openly discussed in the black community. It's a very taboo topic. Honestly, I have seen some things that confuse me when it comes to sexuality being a choice and I don't know how I would have voted.
My advice to the gay and lesbian community is the same advice I give to my Republican friends. If you want to change that perception people have go to where they live and engage them.
maybe i'm going on a limb here, but though african americans vote on a socially conservative level quite often, in their actual lives, i don't see gay people as social pariahs in our community. as a matter of fact, black churches are notorious for having openly gay members that often have rather high positions (*cough* music director *cough*).
personally, i am monumentally confused at how this becomes an issue for government. i truly believe that if you do not approve of same sex marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex. i feel the same about those who are anti abortion. you don't believe in it, then don't have one. people who try and legislate personal morality are highly suspect to me.
Peace to All:
Anon - Instead of repeating myself, I'll quote Point #4 of my most recent post:
"Just as bigotry is bigotry, irresponsible journalism is irresponsible journalism. Savage's column got a lot of people riled up. This anger and disappointment quickly boiled over into unapologetic racism. After the shit hit the fan, Savage, having successfully let off steam, disappointingly ran for the same refuge in which bigoted pundits have been securing themselves for centuries: ignorance. From Savage: 'Of course I don’t endorse any of the hostile, racist comments posted here. I stopped reading this thread, though, early yesterday afternoon; I couldn’t keep up.' This, instead of writing another column which defused the situation, or even making his disdain for racism perfectly clear. Guess what, Dan? You are responsible for the tone of the comments left in response to your angry column. Just as you're responsible for helping to clean up the mess."
This comment has been removed by the author.
isn't that curiously like mccain/palin fanning the fires of the bigotry of others, then the look of surprise when folks started shouting "nigger" and "kill him" at their rallies. yell "fire," and somebody's gonna run.
"I've noticed that race is what things generally end up boiling down to."
@ tha l, I totally agree with you. As soon as EVERYONE comes to grips with the fact that racism is but a branch on the tree, we'll ALL be in a much better place. Please people, let's get to the root.
____________________________________
This is a letter to the Underdogs! Who are the Underdogs, you ask? They are people who are the unfortunate, underprivileged, left behind, uneducated, victims of circumstance, less likely to succeed and not given a chance. To my fellow Underdogs, I understand how hope can feel like a dream, and pain a constant reality. Even more, I understand how life can seemingly end when ends don’t meet. I encourage you now to restore your hope & desire to live because this world has another chance, so do you.
We have been victims of an experiment, victims of something new, victims of deadly sins and, most unfortunately, victims of true lies!
Now, so you don’t have to wonder, let me identify the offender for you: America.
America has insulted your life, beliefs, intelligence and dreams. We have been taught (thru repetitious programming) about history, not the past! The difference in the two is in their definitions; look them up and understand the difference. Time is described in its past, present, or future state. History is not a measure of time; it’s a story about a measure of time. Understand, the history of America will shape your future, so therefore you must learn about the past to get the true story. All questions have lots of possible answers, but there’s only one that’s the truth.
Understand simple things can mean a lot, and complicated things can mean nothing.
If you can read you can find the answer to your problem…It’s that simple!! Have a positive outlook in you toughest times & you will see a difference.
Remember, “the truth will set you free, education is the key”.
T.B.T
"As soon as EVERYONE comes to grips with the fact that racism is but a branch on the tree, we'll ALL be in a much better place. Please people, let's get to the root."
I'm sorry to say it, but this is bullshit. For these angry white gays, race is EXACTLY what this is about. Black folks were singled out for antipathy based on our race. Not class. Not gender. But race. You "big picture" cats kill me with your delusion.
"personally, i am monumentally confused at how this becomes an issue for government. i truly believe that if you do not approve of same sex marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex. i feel the same about those who are anti abortion. you don't believe in it, then don't have one. people who try and legislate personal morality are highly suspect to me."
That speaks volumes. I love reading and listening to words from brilliant people.
I will be a faithful visitor to this blog now. It's my new home.
Please note that Blacks should not get the blame for Prop 8 approval. It is clear that the difference maker was the $20mil of the $40mil that was donated by Mormans that made the difference. So much so that the churches tax status is under review for it. Why do people who claim to be "saved" and "God Fearing" always want to "Play God" and take away people's free will? Amazing...
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